Normal Game Thread Big Trouble in Little Salem

I'm sure "every" here meant never.
Here's my post

His statements were consistent on a point - "I didn't call Crimson shit", not defending the post by explaining the point isn't the best play on his part, but since he believed he was talking to Prada (in his original post) his retorts were valid.

Ok, you wrote an epistle detailing the history between you and another person trying to "discredit your person" and you say it's not personal.

 

What does Blendy mean in this scenario.
I don't even think my posts so far this DP fit in with any other posts.

 

Like your posts don't stand out to me. You are giving your thoughts but in all purpose it's just to fill. I wouldn't say you are really going with the flow, because you aren't just following. But it seems forced on reads as scum might do.

@S H I N T O im not understanding your read on quick? Because he wasn't really pushing me compared to Prada. But you didn't mention Prada at all even though he is the one with the most reasoning of coming after me.

 

My posts weren't meant to fill, don't know how you got that idea, if the dp were to end right now, I'll vote against LM and hope invest checks out Ratchet.

@bold, I don't even get that, are you trying to say I'm not following the thread or what?

 

With Ningen flips town, I re-read the argument involving him.
Keep an eye on these people:
- Prada: Defend CR too much while it's still too early in the game to be sure if someone is scum or not. Trying to divert attention to someone else. His posts during that time were mostly defending CR (arguing with Globear and Ningen) or pointing on Nick over and over (too much focus on 1 person) and sometimes fluff post (talking about the character on Cow's avatar for example). A bit too defensive IMO.

Prada's posts (open) Prada's posts (close)

- Ratchet: His posts during that time were almost exclusively defending CR (right from his 1st post on this thread) by repeating to remind us that CR is newbie over and over and arguing with Ningen. He put too much focus on him and later lead the mislynch on Ningen. Not as sus as Prada but may be worth checking/watching. I'm sure you don't mind, Ratchet? At least that way it can clear you up after this mislynch that makes you look even more sus.

Ratchet's posts (open) Ratchet's posts (close)

- CR: probably newbie scum instead of town. Seeing how much Prada and Ratchet defended him, it's possible that CR role is an important one that they can't afford losing him. Also, him voted Ningen and later went Oops. Worth checking/watching too IMO.

You didn't really suspect anyone yet you voted him. You said you should just vote for him because of what? Enlighten me, please. I know a newbie can make a mistake, but you keep making questionable posts and questionable action - the voting with no proper reason. That makes you look more and more scummy.

 

I hope to see more of @Crispickle and @Lord Maple
Can you guys at least give us your sus list? People you find to be suspicious?

 

Read the post again. I said I went through every game and listed who I was right on, I never said I didn't mislynch in any one of those games except one - Game of Thrones Mafia. You can try and be a smartarse about it, but when you yourself are the one misunderstanding what is said, it just looks silly.

This isn't an argument at all. He said he believed he was talking to Prada, he did not demonstrate this at all. It's just as valid to say he was merely deflecting, which he did do on other counts too, because he didn;t want to admit fault. That's scummy. His statements were the exact opposite of consistent, too.

Right, because the act of discrediting the person is, fundamentally, scummy. It's scummy because it is something scum can use to attack arguments without really attacking them - exactly like what Viole did. His play there was, objectively, scummy. I went into detail on it to show that the statement itself was a straight up lie, because, shocker, that too is scummy. It would be one thing if it was an accurate remark, but when it wasn't, and more importantly, he knows it wasn't, then we start to approach the scum territory. Because there is simply no reason for Town to do that.

So, once again, no, it wasn't personal. It wasn't about me taking offence to his snide remark. It was about me showing how his remark is scummy.

 

I don't agree that I should be looking more suspect due to the mislynch. I think I demonstrated fairly clearly that Ningen's play was scummy. The reasoning behind the lynch is what is most important, not simply the end result. I can't, after all, account for Town effectively playing against their win con and acting like scum. I don't mind being investigated or whatever, no, but if I am to be suspected at least make sure it's for the right reasons. For instance, the only reason I had to repeat any points was because I was dealt with repetition provided back to me under the guise of a counter point. Ignoring that would effectively be me conceding the point, and why on Earth would I do that?

 

Did you ever finish reading up? Because I still haven't seen compliance or objection.

I mean, you didn't have to look on my behalf, since, again, I specifically linked the posts in question.

See, the problem is that you "reading" someone and just scumhunting is negligible. In both instances, you make vapid, unsubstantiated observations. The only difference is that, with a "read" you'll explicitly say "and therefore they're this alignment."

And honestly, looking back, you've only ever given Town reads. Even with Glob, you never explicitly state that you think she's Scum, just that there's something off about her tone, which is frankly the same level of "not a read though" as your post about liking Prada's posts. The only person you "read" last game was Ningen for the obtuse reason that he would have a question about a mechanic that affects both Scum and Town (and matter you refused to acknowledge no matter how many times I explained it). So I guess that's really what sets them apart, in retrospect, since one of your main reads this game is that a player happened to use ******* bold tags for something super basic. The more asinine, the more likely you are to convert it to a read.

So for a guy who basically said "I was right about one person last game, so just take me on my word because I'm usually right," it's awful convenient that we're supposed to just ignore all the stuff you were wrong about.

Considering your objection last game was specifically and explicitly addressed as the first major point in the original post, I think it's rather silly that you just repeatedly ignored my calls for it this game, especially considering you don't want me to focus on it and ignoring it is basically the only way to consistently force me to focus on it.

I'm assuming here that "third party" is being used to refer to people who are secondary to the primary conflict, and therefore not Cults or SKs or the like, which are explicitly Anti-Town and therefore specifically part of the primary conflict, since I've already covered how they are impacted by the strategy when I refer to "Scum" in my original post.

With this assumption in mind, there are a few third party wincons which are better served coming out on Day 1 because of the stringent requirement to do so early. In particular, the Survivor (which I've generally found to be the most commonly implemented third party) has to decide whether its worth risking burning all bridges with the Town in case of a Cop guilty, when coming out on Day 1 serves both his and the Town's interests. A Lyncher (which I've generally found to be the second most commonly implemented third party) generally won't come out, but might consider coming out and pretending to be a Survivor, which is something of a compromise, being neither the best for Town (total honesty) nor the worst for Town (total dishonesty). Jesters probably won't come out, but Jester is pretty much a "**** you" role anyway, so there's not much can be helped with that. And most other third party wincons are fairly obscure.

I mean, even here, I see the exact opposite. Correct play from Miller is indeed to be open about it early, but just because you or I feels that way doesn't mean it's immediately apparent to everyone, so forcing everyone to acknowledge it ensures that we don't have someone on Day 4 going "oh, ya, I'm a Miller, sorry guys" because he didn't want to be open about it early.

You don't think his first post was a joke, which would make it role fishing, but also don't think he's role fishing and see him as Town, which would require his first post to be a joke... I'm going to need you to clarify this sentiment.

Let's qualify this, shall we?

• Prada brings up the rolefishing in #70
• Ningen acknowledges the post, but dismisses it as being irrelevant to the argument in #75 and #81, finally takes a stand that it was a joke in #85 and #86
• Falcon believes Nick is joking in #78, but clarifies that he believes it to have been stupid in #84 and #127
• wowee believes Nick is joking in #83
• pou acknowledges the post, but only comments that it seems like Prada is deflecting in #88, later clarifies that she doesn't see it as rolefishing or as a joke somehow in #137
• Nick claims it was a joke in #99 and #123
• Rot believes Nick wasn't joking in #126
• Bimbo can't reconcile Nick joking given the circumstances in #134
• Quick takes the stance that Scum don't rolefish in a hilarious "too scummy to be Scum" argument in #153, then shifts to Nick joking in #180
• Maple felt like Nick was joking in #178
• Shinto doesn't think Nick was joking, but also doesn't think he was rolefish...somehow in #194

So, of 15 players, we have 6 who believed Nick was joking, 3 who believed Nick was role fishing, 2 who somehow believe neither, and 4 who took no stance on the issue. You're 2 shy of having a majority, and 4 off from reasonably being able to say that it ought to be obvious.

There's a 24-hour limit. The thread is always moving.

Because, obviously, the best way for Town to move forward is to blindly kill as many people as possible. That makes sense. Nevermind that you apparently can't even ******* count and ensured a lynch on the person you hadn't just Scum read, and nevermind that you explicitly Town read both Ningen and Prada earlier in the thread, but why the absolute **** would we want to lynch two people blind?

As before, 6 favored you, 3 were against, 2 took nonsense stances, and 4 didn't comment. This is not remotely "almost all" or "all but a few" in my mind.

I mean, Quick explicitly votes for Ningen in #8 right before the deadline, so I'm pretty sure his vote was correctly counted.

How is this more likely? It was Day 1 with no preceding Night. The only people with privileged info at that point were Scum.

...

...

See the rest of this post.

Not really. We only have Ningen's word that he thought he was directing that insult at Prada, but we have the contextual evidence of the post and how it would not make sense if directed at Prada which discredits this. Ningen is capable of lying, and seems to be lying about this. By refusing to outline his thought process or concede that he misworded it, and instead trying to make this a point against Ratchet (for whom he voted), it seems like Ningen is pushing a false narrative to discredit Ratchet, which he would have no reason to do as Town.

This isn't difficult. One player made a statement. Another player demonstrated that statement to be false, and then demonstrated that the first player knew the statement to be false when he made it. Nothing personal there. In retrospect, Ningen was probably taking shit too personally, but since that is only clear from his alignment in hindsight, we can't fairly apply that information to people prior to the flip.

I think one point of interest is that you never commented on Nick's joke/attempt to provoke Reaper into claiming.

 

I didn't, and still don't, have much of an opinion on it. I don't think it was an obvious joke, but I think there were better ways to fish for a roleclaim if that was his intention too. If I had to pick i would say it was the latter, but it felt like a lot of nothing to me.

 

Eh, I just instinctively thought that nothing happened last night because nothing was said except "No else died." In the DN game, when I was SK, I chose to not kill during one of the NP's and the night read there ended up being along the lines of "Nothing happened." SK(the host of that DN game) made it clear that it was written like that specifically I didn't kill, rather than me being blocked or otherwise during that game.

Then I remembered that this is Cow, a different host in a different game, so he doesn't have to spill details like previous games if he doesn't want to.

First person that comes to mind was Quick. Like, I was taken aback when the dude said that "Prada is scum" and then proceeded to vote for Ningen. The "I thought I was tying the votes" thing sounded odd af cuz what would that change if you did tie it? Prada would still be lynched since he was voted first anyways. I just don't follow the logic behind that. He also something like "I didn't want Ningen to get town cred for lynching Prada because I also think he's sus" is like, wat. If "Prada is scum" like he said, why would he care about Ningen getting town cred. Clearly, if he thought that Ningen was scum, then he had enough valid reasons to affirm his stance, regardless of Ningen's vote? It sounds strange to me.

Here's the quote when he said it in response to "Why did you change your vote?":

 

Jesus Christ. Have some issues with sugoidesu on my pc right now, so I am only phone posting. Give me like an Hour to sort it out.

 

No he didn't, he placed his vote against Nick, then Prada, then Ningen, then he did the controversial here
So, it's for cow to answer.

 

I was there when it happened. He did that after the timer was up, hence why he said "In case it still counts"

 

Aiit.