1. Hey, Guest! Do you want to chat with us? Then come to the chat thread Here!
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Welcome to Sugoi Desu, Respected Guest! Please take a moment to register today.

Comfy Café #5

Discussion in 'Chatroom Corner' started by Kaito, Oct 8, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Yoru

    Yoru Godly Member

    Messages
    5,620
    1,894
    Trophy Points
    2,570
    Keno
    6,233ლ
    @bold: You say you're not going to waste time talking about this stuff and then you continue to do so.

    Not forcing you into an argument or saying you can't have an opinion different from mine, but it's one thing to say you like something and a completely different thing to say something is objectively bad or inferior to something else. One is indeed just a subjective opinion, second is a public claim purporting to present a fact. Feelings (subjective opinions such as "I like or don't like", "It appeals to me or doesn't" etc) need not be challenged. Factual claims on the other hand are there to be challenged and if you're gonna make them you ought to have something to support them (you're constantly doing the latter and then retreating to the former when you run out of arguments in favor of your opinion).

    Think or say what you like, it's just disingenuous.
     
  2. Yoru

    Yoru Godly Member

    Messages
    5,620
    1,894
    Trophy Points
    2,570
    Keno
    6,233ლ
    As for DCEU it should just bury itself. This stuff is embarassing.

    Having said that, I actually liked BvS and it's the only movie from them that I defended and still do. Say what you like about what it decided to do but one thing that is undeniable is that it had balls. Snyder had a clear and original vision for the film and he went with it. That vision didn't sit well with most but he knew what he wanted to do and went on to do it. Compare this to a movie like Justice League which was a complete abandoning of all identity and was literally the studio apologizing "oh we're sorry for trying something new, here we'll be like Marvel, we'll be funny, we'll add more action, we'll make it shorter, we'll have a cliche villain, you'll like us now right?" absolutely disgusting.

    Marvel is the only superhero cinematic universe I'll be going to as they actually care about what they're making rather than just getting money (it is that passion and vision that actually made them the most profitable franchise in cinematic history).
     
  3. upsurge God of Tea

    Messages
    17,733
    7,167
    Trophy Points
    4,040
    Keno
    3,360ლ
    Hundreds of thousands of Polish Jews (and other Non-Aryan undesirables) were hunted and either killed brutally or turned over to Nazi concentration camps by fellow Poles. I highly doubt a tiny number of Poles participated in the hunting down of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Look, Poland was one of those countries which had it the worst during Nazi occupation. But to say that all Poles were victims and not complicit in the atrocities is just plain dishonest and blatant ignoring of historical occurrences. Nobody is saying that a majority of Poles were complicit. But a great many Poles were.

    Also, passing a bill to suppress discussion of the issue only raises more suspicions. It is an indicator of a people who only want to play historical victim and don't want to face the hard truths and don't even want to discuss it. And from what I understand of this bill, those who support it are mostly the Far Right i.e. a kind of people who tend to gravitate towards religious extremist and Neo-Nazi ideologies.
     
  4. Schpittfeuer helpless chicken

    Messages
    4,281
    1,070
    Trophy Points
    2,370
    Keno
    16,013ლ
    @upsurge @Centipede

    To clarify, massive wall of text in the spoiler.

    Show Spoiler

    "Polish death camp" doesn't imply "German death camp built and run by Nazis in 3rd Reich occupied territory" especially in polish language. "Polish death camp" states that it was raised by poles or with active help of poles and its Polish responsibility. Idk, language differences?
    "Polski obóz śmierci" pretty much says "you, polish people, built and managed them".
    The law isn't against retarded Americans, or Germans or Brits or whoever that slip the phrase and misunserstand the thing. IMPORTANT HERE: It's against remains of commies, POLISH retards and even deputees, that spread bullshit that Poland was actively taking part in holocaust and openly use the "polish death camp" phrase to harm PL image on national scene. This is real and harmful history manipulation. Never ever in history of ww2 a death camp was raised by poles on polish land. It was Germans on the land they raped and destroyed and claimed.

    Another part of it is how swiftly the discussion changes from "polish death camp" law to "poles' participation in holocaust", exactly what Israel wants to achieve. To produce mass hysteria how poles want to negate the holocaust. Which is bs. Mind you, Polish Jews support the law and criticize that bullshit video about "polish holocaust". So this is just searching and trying to make a mess out of something completely different, not mentioning it hits the memory of people who risking their lives were saving Jews on great scale and who were by far more numerous than traitors and collaborators.
    Again I say. Poland never ever collaborated with Nazis (unlike France that had whole government dedicated to Nazis for example, which noone strangely mentions). We had underground government that was always working, we had biggest resistance movement ever in Europe. Collaborators were instantly hunted and executed by underground army. Polish families were risking their lives, torture of individuals and whole families for hiding Jews. The greatest amount of Jews saved was in poland. Poland did never collaborate with Nazis. Individual traitors did. They were less than a drop in the ocean. A scum. An unworthy mentioning human garbage. And they were dealt with instantly, executed. We never stopped fighting. We never do.

    Ofc in whole this they (israel and hysterical anti polish deputees) don't utter a single word about Jews that sold other Jews to Germans. Polish collaborators? Yes very much. Jewish rats? HOW DARE YOU SIX MILLIONS JEWS DIED HURRR. See my point. They don't have and will never make us agree to give them some kind of idiotic exclusiveness for suffering from Nazis. They try to make themselves only victims and Poles as perpetrators of holocaust. Unacceptable. Never will happen.
    This is political action aimed at making a mess and getting some profit. Surprise surprise.

    Banning "polish death camps" doesn't mean negating holocaust (which for unknown reason seem to be the problem for all of you). It's dealing with hurtful statement that shifts the guilt and responsibility to our nation. Nation that never stopped fighting, nation that was nearly levelled to ground by oppression, nation that saved highest amount of Jews and which despite all that was forced to pay heavily for all contribution during communist occupation (with full consent of western allies). There's no context. Polish phrase in Polish language "polskie obozy smierci" has no other meaning than death camps made by and managed by poles. Which was never the case. Period. Historical truth > semantics anyway.
     
  5. Schpittfeuer helpless chicken

    Messages
    4,281
    1,070
    Trophy Points
    2,370
    Keno
    16,013ლ
    @upsurge read it please. You are wrong, this wall of text covers pretty much what you wrote when I was writing
     
  6. JoeJoe

    JoeJoe from the east blue

    Messages
    31,293
    12,583
    Trophy Points
    4,940
    Keno
    125,223ლ


    We all got big dreams
    We don't have much time to lose I learned not to care what people think
    When I try to pay my bills with the words they speak
    Then save your two cents for the ice cream man
     
  7. upsurge God of Tea

    Messages
    17,733
    7,167
    Trophy Points
    4,040
    Keno
    3,360ლ
    Show Spoiler

    Nobody is saying all of Poland was actively participating in the Holocaust and building concentration camps. All they're saying is that there are Poles who participated in the Holocaust and that the crimes of home-grown Polish Nazi sympathizers should be acknowledged. Just as the crimes of home-grown Nazi sympathizers in all European nations need to be acknowledged. You people (all European nations I mean) need to stop playing 100% victim and stop shifting 100% of blame to Germany. You all had war criminals born and raised on your own soil and you need to acknowledge that.

    "Jews that sold other Jews to the Nazis"
    There were also Non-Jewish Poles who sold fellow Non-Jewish Poles to the Nazis. Black on black crime was always a big deal back during the civil rights movement. So what's your point? Yeah, there are always going to be such cases.

    Homosexuals, people of African descent, Romas, etc also had it like shite during WWII. The people of central and south-eastern Europe also had it like hell during WWII. But do they act like they were as badly victimized as the Poles? No they don't. Everyone the world over acknowledges that Poland was one of the worst victims of Nazi occupation. Nobody denies that. It's just that historians are asking for the atrocities of home-grown Polish Nazi sympathizers to be acknowledged. That is all.

    "unlike France that had whole government dedicated to Nazis for example, which noone strangely mentions"
    What in the world are you even on about? France was invaded and officially surrendered. But the French people went on to mount an absolutely fierce resistance against Nazi occupation. I'm talking freaking Viet Cong fierce here.

    As Captain America said of the French during WWII:
    (fictional quote but it matters)
    ~ The country surrendered but the people did not.

    You said earlier that Israel and their supporters were being manipulative? Please, Spitfire-kun. Poland's government just wrote a bill banning a dissenting opinion. They didn't ban a group which was threatening to carry out acts of terror, they didn't ban the free speech of some extremist right or left wing nut who was threatening to wage war against Poland, they didn't ban someone who was making actual hate speech. No. They banned an opinion that some people in your country find it hard to digest. They used political power to ban a simple dissenting opinion based on historical fact.

    Oh, Polish sentiments were hurt by the fact that historians actually want to talk about war crimes committed by a small minority of Poles? Boo-freaking-hoo. If all European nations started banning dissenting opinions that hurt the sentiments of the majority, women would still be second-class citizens, homosexuals would still be up for life or even death sentences, the Catholic church would control politics in most of mainland Europe, science and technology in Europe would still be at like 18th century levels, and so on and so on...

    Regardless of whose sentiments were hurt, the banning of a dissenting opinion with some historical basis, an opinion whose supporters are not some crazy religious extremists calling for bloodshed, an opinion whose supporters only desire discussion on an important issue, an opinion backed by historians, an opinion the discussion of which is not going to f@cking destroy Polish pride and not going to erase the historical fact that Poland was one of the worst sufferers of Nazi occupation, an opinion whose suppression could be a slippery slope that could lead to the further rise of the far right in Poland, is an absolutely dangerous move. All you're doing is suppressing a mere opinion and only raising more suspicions of Poland during World War II than clearing them. Let that sink in. People are going to be more suspicious than ever now. And they're going to be more wary of the growing influence of the far right in your country. You know. The ones who tend to gravitate towards religious extremism and Neo-Nazi ideologies? Poland just shot itself in the mouth with this bill. You're going to be seen less as victims and more as people who have something to hide, some truth to suppress, some fact you can't digest.

    And by the way...
    Not all opponents of this bill are some king of pro-Israel Zionist nut jobs. No. Most are just proponents of free speech and historians who want the issue discussed rather than brushed under the carpet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  8. Gobb

    Gobb finds a way

    Messages
    45,200
    22,583
    Trophy Points
    5,440
    Keno
    43,746ლ
    now I want ice cream
    1519337054562.png
     
    JoeJoe likes this.
  9. JoeJoe

    JoeJoe from the east blue

    Messages
    31,293
    12,583
    Trophy Points
    4,940
    Keno
    125,223ლ
    Gobb likes this.
  10. Gobb

    Gobb finds a way

    Messages
    45,200
    22,583
    Trophy Points
    5,440
    Keno
    43,746ლ
    [​IMG]
    >message amazon about artbook
    >mfw they gave me free delivery because of the delay
    >order not cancelled so assume they still can get the item
     
    JoeJoe likes this.
  11. JoeJoe

    JoeJoe from the east blue

    Messages
    31,293
    12,583
    Trophy Points
    4,940
    Keno
    125,223ლ
    NAISUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!
     
    Gobb likes this.
  12. Gobb

    Gobb finds a way

    Messages
    45,200
    22,583
    Trophy Points
    5,440
    Keno
    43,746ლ
    1518923401206.png
     
    JoeJoe likes this.
  13. JoeJoe

    JoeJoe from the east blue

    Messages
    31,293
    12,583
    Trophy Points
    4,940
    Keno
    125,223ლ
    Gobb likes this.
  14. Gobb

    Gobb finds a way

    Messages
    45,200
    22,583
    Trophy Points
    5,440
    Keno
    43,746ლ
    Kirin armour MH
    [​IMG]
    1519046693949.png
     
    JoeJoe likes this.
  15. JoeJoe

    JoeJoe from the east blue

    Messages
    31,293
    12,583
    Trophy Points
    4,940
    Keno
    125,223ლ
    Gobb likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page